Rafael Barberá, former DGOSS: “I was impacted by the work of mutual insurance companies with injured people”

Rafael Barberá de la Torre is a Full Professor at the University of Applied Economics at the Rey Juan Carlos University. Graduate and Doctor in Economics from the Complutense University of Madrid. Barberá has an MSc in Economics from the University of Southampton and an MBA in Financial Business Management from the Institute of Financial and Insurance Studies, having taught at the Complutense University of Madrid, as well as postgraduate courses at the Diplomatic School of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, among other centers.

His resume accumulates extensive experience in Administration, which makes him an expert in very different subjects. He has been General Director of the Madrid Foundation for Competitiveness of the Ministry of Economy, Finance and Employment and General Director of Economic-Financial Management and Pharmacy of the Madrid Health Service of the Ministry of Health of the Community of Madrid; Minister of Employment and Social Security at the Permanent Representation of Spain to the European Union in Brussels; and General Director of Organization of the Social Security in the Ministry of Employment and Social Security.

You have held positions of responsibility in different administrations and now you resume your teaching duties at the Rey Juan Carlos University. How has this change been?

First of all, I want to thank Fraternidad-Muprespa for thinking of me to do this interview. I feel very honored by the proposal and delighted to accept this opportunity that you have given me to briefly present my opinions on the questions that I will answer below.

Having said this, and now answering the question about my return to teaching at the University, I can only say that it is the normal situation in the life of someone who considers himself, wherever he is, a university professor. You could say that my return is like the return of the prodigal son, and that is how my colleagues have reacted, they have welcomed me with great affection and are already proposing that I carry out both research and administrative tasks. It must be taken into account that I started teaching at the university 30 years ago, in the 1992-1993 academic year at the center that was the seed of the current Rey Juan Carlos University, after having spent a few years at a private company in the insurance sector.

It is true that after almost twelve years in public activities the change is important, it is a completely different but wonderful task.

Teaching is a fundamental activity when it comes to training people with a critical mindset who are capable of thinking for themselves and in an environment that should be one of discussion and respect and never indoctrination of any kind.

For its part, public activity is also attractive for those of us who have concerns and who wish to contribute some of our knowledge in order to improve the lives of our fellow citizens, whether at the national, regional or municipal level. Furthermore, now I consider that I can transmit to my students knowledge that before this period I would not have been able to tell, or I would have done it in a very different way. I believe that my experience accumulated during these years in various administrative positions will improve my teaching activity since it will surely have a character that is much more applied to today's world instead of being much more attached to theory.Think that I am an economics professor.

___What is the biggest challenge you faced as Director General of Security Regulation Social? At that time of intense work with the mutual insurance companies you were able to learn about our work, which aspect would you highlight as the most relevant?

The General Management Directorate of the Social Security (known as DGOSS) is, like the Social Security as a whole, a position that has a very high workload and that touches on very sensitive aspects for the Spanish population. If I had to highlight the biggest challenge I had during the five years I was there, I would say it was everything related to pensions.

The financial problems that the pension system presented and present today are very complicated issues to address since they affect both those who receive the pension, those who are working and contributing, companies and those who are going to join the labor market later.

In addition, all of this, which is not simple in itself, is aggravated by the political debate, a debate with an important populist component that does not sincerely and clearly explain the situation of the system and does not seek consensual and coherent solutions through a great national pact. It is necessary to talk to the experts, deeply and honestly analyze the situation, as well as the possible solutions, without reservations, limitations or a priori.

The other important challenge that I faced at the DGOSS was everything related to the mutual societies collaborating with the Social Security. The mutual societies were a discovery for me since during those five years in the general management I saw first-hand how complicated it is to manage entities like these. There are many people who think that they are only dedicated to processing and paying social security benefits derived from temporary disability, work accident, occupational disease, etc. There are even many who criticize them for their zeal in controlling IT. Well, this part of the mutual activity is not a trivial issue since it allows the system to work more agilely and facilitates the administration of the Social Security its work.

However, what impacted me most about the work of mutual insurance companies, without detracting from everything they do, was their work with people who suffered a work accident. I witnessed the excellent care provided to the injured, the operation of their hospitals and the general work of all the staff.

I would like to highlight as something to value very positively their efforts in the recovery of injured people, how they train those people who due to the consequences cannot continue carrying out their usual activity so that they can carry out other work activities and how they care for people who as a result of the accident suffer a significant disability, as well as their families and caregivers.

___Traditionally the Eurobarometer reflects a high degree of trust among Spanish citizens towards the European Union.How important are employment and Social Security in the policies of the Union? What is the role of the Minister of Employment and Social Security in the Permanent Representation of Spain to the European Union in Brussels?

We Spaniards have always seen Europe as an organization of countries that has helped us achieve levels of living and well-being that if we had had to achieve it alone it would have taken us much longer to achieve. Furthermore, in times past, European countries were seen as an example to follow on an economic and political level; they were our reference. All this means that we Spaniards have always been very European and have great confidence in their institutions and their functioning.

Regarding employment and Social Security, they are perhaps not the most prominent and well-known areas within the policies carried out by the European Union, since, as is the case with many other matters, competencies are shared. For this reason, both Member States and the EU can enact laws in this area. In any case, the EU seeks solutions based on its powers included in the treaties, among others, employment policies, health and safety at work, social security coverage for all workers who carry out their activity in other member states, equality between men and women, the fight against poverty and discrimination, etc. All of these issues, and others that I have not mentioned, are important and important points in the functioning of the labor market and social policies. The point is that since they are quite technical aspects, they do not have as much impact in the media and are quite unknown.

From all this work of the EU, for example, in 2017 the European Pillar of Social Rights was born with 20 basic principles and rights that Member States must comply with to achieve a good functioning of the labor market and the welfare system. So, like everything that is done in the EU, it has a very notable impact on the lives of Spaniards.

The Employment and Social Security counselors, like the rest of the counselors from the different ministries, have an important and very active role in the relations of the Council of the EU with Spain. Without intending to be exhaustive, the employment and Social Security counselors are responsible for assisting and defending the Spanish position in the Working Groups of the Council of the European Union in the areas of Work, Social Security, Social Affairs and Migration. They help prepare the participation of the Minister in the Council of Ministers of Employment, Social Security, Social Policy, Health and Consumption (EPSCO). On the other hand, they maintain regular contacts with the European Commission, the Spanish deputies of the European Parliament, and the advisors of the rest of the delegations on a bilateral or multilateral basis to discuss the files being processed and upcoming proposals.

It is also common for them to hold meetings with representatives of different national and foreign organizations in relation to matters within their jurisdiction and to write notes and reports for the Ministry explaining the situation and developments that occur in the different files, as well as any aspect of interest to the Ministry. As you can see, it is intense work and not inconsiderable.

They say that health is priceless. Or do you have it? Do we really value what our Public Health System costs us?

Health is a fundamental issue for human beings to the extent that if there is no health, life becomes much more complicated both on a personal and professional level. What happens is that, as they say, health is not valued until it is lost and we are aware of its importance at the moment when illness overwhelms us. A clear example comes from the COVID-19 pandemic that we unfortunately had to suffer recently. It was at that moment when we all realized how important health is and how an illness can harm our life and even, unfortunately, cause us to lose it quickly and showed us in a stark way the fragility of the human being. Therefore, from this point of view, health is priceless.

On the other hand, when public resources have to be managed, those in charge of managing the budget for the health sector are aware that many things have to be done, some of them very expensive, with a limited budget.

Despite this budget limitation, it is worth highlighting the effort made by public administrations to cover all the needs of the health system. Suffice it to point out that the health item is the most important in the budgets of the Autonomous Communities, it represents around 40% of the total expenditure in each of them.

This important effort has made it possible for the Spanish health system to be among the best in Europe and the world. Specifically, the Autonomous Community of Madrid has been identified by the European Union as the region with the best healthcare on the continent.

That said, I believe that, beyond the criticism, we Spaniards do value our health system positively. It is true that there are possibilities for improvement, as in everything in this life, but in general we can verify its proper functioning day by day. Furthermore, when we have to undergo certain treatments, we are aware of the significant expense that this treatment entails and the effort that is made to seek to solve our health problems. Perhaps, to point out something that should be taken more into account when evaluating our health system, I would highlight the very important pharmaceutical expenditure. We need to be aware that the medications we take every day represent a significant financial effort and this is sometimes not valued enough.

Competitiveness and innovation are the pillars of economic growth. In your opinion, how are they combined with the necessary sustainability? Is the green economy the solution?

It is true that the competitiveness of an economy, understood as all those elements that affect productivity, is a factor that has positive effects on growth. However, this is not independent of innovation since innovation has a direct impact on productivity and, therefore, on competitiveness. An economy that does not innovate will little by little see its productivity decline and consequently its long-term growth.If a country wants to continue growing, it must improve different factors that increase productivity, and among them innovation stands out, but to do this it must also have people with adequate training to be able to face the challenges of innovation.

Thus human capital also becomes a key factor for innovation and thus for long-term growth term.

I suppose that when they refer to sustainability they mean environmental sustainability. This clarification is necessary, since sustainability can refer to multiple issues, for example, public accounts, pensions, etc.

In relation to the environment, some areas attempt to provide a vision that competitiveness and, therefore, growth comes at the cost of harming the environment. I consider that this proposal is completely unfocused. Every day it is more common for companies to dedicate more resources to improving technology that is respectful of the environment. Specifically, innovation is making the technologies applicable to the industry increasingly cleaner and this has been possible thanks to technological development. Therefore, making competitiveness and innovation incongruent with environmental sustainability does not make any sense.

Today, competitiveness and innovation seek to achieve economic growth and improved well-being from a compatibility with sustainability environmental.

As for the green economy, I would say that it has positive elements to move forward, but I do not believe that it is the only proposal that will improve the environmental situation of the planet or the well-being of people. I have already mentioned previously the importance of innovation as a dynamic element of the economy and the benefits that arise from it. I am not a supporter of one-way solutions. I am convinced that by providing the necessary knowledge, facilitating an open debate and treating people as intelligent beings who know what they want, diverse ways will be found to achieve social and environmental objectives that improve the standard of living of the people who live on planet Earth.